Frank's Aquarium

[petspy]

Frank, can you think of a small loach that won't eat shrimp fry,
but will still go after baby snails and worms stuck in the gravel?
I can think of a lot of planted tank nano and CRS/RCS keepers
who would love a species like that. some Kulie loach perhaps?

I've read these may be shrimp fry friendly loaches:
Botia sidthimunki -aka- Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki
Update: Frank's gonna try to get some in Sunday 7/1

[franksaquarium]

I wonder if the half-banded loach would fit the bill?



They don't appear to eat small fish, and I wonder if they'd leave small shrimp alone.
_________________
Frank M. Greco (customerservice@franksaquarium.com)

[petspy]

the half banded loach Schistura savona
grows to double the length of that Botia
so it would not fit in well with nano fish.

Loaches are inferior snail eaters to Botia
who have mouths capable of cracking a
snail shells better relative to their size,
so I think I'll bet on the Botia working out.

most probably I'll end up isolating the
mother shrimp as soon as her babies
show eye sockets and are nearing birth,
then reintroduce the fry back into my
community tank once they are bigger.

[franksaquarium]

[petspy]

if you say they only grow <3cm in your own tank,
then this profile sight saying 3-10cm must be wrong;
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/HillstreamLoaches/HalfBandedLoach.php
here's another profile sight that confirms <3cm
http://akvaforum.no/profile.cfm?id=4933

If simply having a shrimp fry safe loach were my only concern,
I would have to agree that your choice of S.Savona would be best,
but despite your own observations, I have my doubts that S.Savona
would be effective snail fry eaters based on other forums I've read,
(saying that they are like small Kuli loaches that don't eat snails)
so it could be a fish to fish tendency (similar to how many people
report their SAE's get lazy and stop eating algae, while other SAE's
can't seem to get enough of the stuff). S.Savona are much cheaper
than the Botia's I have in mind, so that may become a consideration,
while the Botia's may be worth it for their better display color/pattern
and higher level of shoaling activity. decisions, decisions...

Frank, you have too many choices!
it makes it harder to shop here

It should be noted that S.sidthimunki can grow over 6cm,
so the title of "nano loach" would have to go to S.Savona

according to many posts on forums.loaches.com
S.sidthimunki Botia may snack on small Shrimp
observations seem to vary fish to fish, tank to tank.

[franksaquarium]

It may be that the snail-eating is an artifact of captivity, which is not unlikely. Fish behaviour can change in captivity, and it would not be unusual for a particular feeding behaviour to mainifest itself in order to take advantage of a situation. For example, in one exhibit at work, we have rooster hogfish and cownoses, both of which are not known herbivores. However, both of these species in our exhibit eat kale and collard greens like it is the most natural thing for them to do.

As to eating shrimp, this is something that needs to be found out. I've got some young shrimp here I can put in with mine.

As to the posting of different sizes, I would tend to believe FishBase on this one.
_________________
Frank M. Greco (customerservice@franksaquarium.com)

[petspy]

Frank, since you keep S.Savona for yourself, let me ask you;

I've read such loaches are native to strong water current, so
will they be comfortable in a tank with mild water movement?

I've read these loaches may burrow a bit into sandy substrate,
is that observed often enough to risk uprooting fine carpet plants?

It should be noted that my tank has some stem plants and rock
clusters to provide them cover, hopefully discouraging burrowing,
and I have no large fish >3cm or hostile fish to threaten them.

[franksaquarium]

[petspy]

I see you got in Barbucca diabolica which rarely grow over 2.5cm

That sounds like an even better candidate for "nano loach".

what beharioral differences have you noticed with B.diabolica when compared to S.Savona

[franksaquarium]

[petspy]

my Observations: Botia sidthimunki -aka- Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki

After a few weeks with 6 of Frank's Botia I'd like to comment on their behavior. for the first few days they were constantly schooling with my other fish which was a bit unsettling, but once they settled into my 18x30" bottom tank they started to act more like Botia should by spending most of their time shoaling together at or near the bottom.

People considering Botia with planted tanks should be warned not to introduce them into tanks with fine shallow rooted newly established plants such as dwarf hairgrass or H-Cuba.

The Botia drill their snots up to a cm into my course sand and whip their tails around, thus dislodging a lot of fine carpet plant bits on a regular basis. I consider this a bare able nuisance as they also dislodge a lot of debris that once water borne has a chance to get cleaned away by my canister filter, thus keeping the bottom of my tank a lot neater.

People with larger sharp hard and heavy gravel such as Eco-Complete may want to avoid this fish as they could get injured drilling into such a substrate.

[apistomaster]

I discovered and bought all four of what I think are Pangio elongata, one of the brown Kuhlii type loaches at my LFS. I needed a SE Asian bottom fish since I did not want foreigners like Corydoras spp in this tank.
I have them living in a 10 gal tank with Boraras maculatus, T. espei, Betta mahachai and a blooming population of Cherry Shrimp.

I normally don't collect loaches but these were too unique to pass up the opportunity to get them and they were only $3.00 each.
I sure am enjoying them. I read a report of an unplanned spawning and I would be pleased to have it happen for me.
One early amazing observation was the ease with which these loaches could dive into the coarse smooth pea gravel substrate that was being used in their tank. I expected they would burrow into fine sand but not gravel. The clerk had to sieve through the sand to catch them.

I am always a softy when it comes to the "contaminants" found among imports of wild fish as long as I know what to expect of them.
I wouldn't want to buy a Pike Cichlid fry mixed in with assorted Apistogramma unless I was reasonably sure it was one of the Dwarf Pike Cichlid spp.
_________________
Larry Waybright
Hobbyist breeder. My main interests are wild Discus, breeding rare Brazilian Hypancistrus spp, L260, L333, L46 Zebra and Peckoltia sp L134 plecos. Also SA. Dwarf Cichlids, Apistogramma.
Fly fishing for Trout.

[mikev]

Pangio Elongata will be really rare....this species was described only in 2007 and most likely was not imported, albeit anything can show up as a contaminant. Could it be Pangio Oblonga instead? -- these are more common, also brown, and indeed are known to occasionally spawn, albeit nobody figured out how to trigger it.

[apistomaster]

Mike,
I bet you are correct. I came across both names but from different sources and thought P. oblonga was a misspelling of P.elongata.
These brown kuhli loaches are difficult to identify and then when I first found them they were very skinny. Now they are much more full bodied.
They were all from the same shipment so I am hoping they all belong to the same species but there is no guarantee they are.
_________________
Larry Waybright
Hobbyist breeder. My main interests are wild Discus, breeding rare Brazilian Hypancistrus spp, L260, L333, L46 Zebra and Peckoltia sp L134 plecos. Also SA. Dwarf Cichlids, Apistogramma.
Fly fishing for Trout.

[mikev]

Larry,

If you post a photo, either me or Frank (who imported P.oblonga many times) can confirm. P.Oblonga is a "fat" kuhli, similar in shape to usual "striped" kinds; P.Elongata is a "thin" one, similar to P.Dorae or P.Pulla.
P.Oblonga is similar to P.Pangio, this is where confusion is possible.

If you want to try to have them breed, treat them as cories (give them a cory style setup and leave them alone).